Money Exchange (cont'd)
I hear there are huge amounts of money being socked away by corporate executives and legions of workers being exploited.

You know, one of the reasons the stuff we love is increasingly rare, is that most businesses that produce really great stuff or give really great service & are run by people who are passionately involved with the product.  Unless they are supported by enthusiasts, these people are pilloried by bargain hunters and crucified on the mighty dollar sign.

Your thoughts?

CyclArtist@AOL


Dear CyclArtist,
I offered mine for $200 and here's a typical response:

<< That is a fair price but I have 3 sets now 1 in use and 2 awaiting the right frames. I gave $ 200 for the last set but it came with a complete 1975 P-15 all NR Paramount, the other 2 I got for $5 and $25 each. Regards Jack >>

Slen@AOL

Dear Slen,
I suppose your point is that market value is very low, but the above proves nothing.  I've got NR crank sets I'd sell for $5 too, but they are not in NOS condition. What we have here is either a tall tale, or a means to drive the seller's price down.  The guy has nothing to loose with such a statement and possibly he'd contact you under another screen name to offer less.

Further, it obviously does not compare apples to apples. We're talking NOS, virgin, never assembled old stock. This guy implies he got the same thing plus the rest of the bike for $200. I kind of think if he got a virgin bike kit, he'd have mentioned it.  I'd bet the bike was well used and the cranks in poor condition. 

Why would anyone sell a new crank set for $5?  A widow of a cycle enthusiast who was clueless about what she had?

This could even be the electronic equivalent of the "swap score boast."  I've witnessed the phenomenon several times; I've been at a swap meet, noticed a buy occur & later happened to be standing next to the buyer when his buddy asks how much he paid.  Some buyers "boast" a much lower than actual price. 

Odds are, if I contacted this guy without his suspecting I'd seen this post, telling him I really need a triple for a project, I'd bet he'll swing to the opposite side of the buy/sell continuum. 

I'm not comfortable with people who buy at extremely low prices, especially when all they are doing is hoarding.  But what one pays under one set of circumstances is no reason to demean someone else for asking or paying more in another.  If someone is  trying to preserve our disappearing cycling heritage or even just rekindling an old passion through nostalgia and pays a high price for a particular piece, there is no reason to vilify them! 

Please don't use the Email post you sent above to justify slander of a legitimate business, or your disdain of those who fee strongly enough about certain cycling hardware to pay or ask the premium price it commands. 

Thanks for the opportunity to hash this stuff through.

CyclArtist@AOL.Com
Dear CyclArtist,
Got your feedback. I consider it worthy of a thoughtful response, please stand by. On the other hand, should let you what kind of bird (myself) you are dealing with here. When a local shop owner started selling TA bottle holders w/o bottles for $35, (you and I both know original wholesale cost less than $2), in his shop AND had gall to try it at local swap meet, I proceeded to pull out my inventory (total of 9), which included the bottles. I flooded the local market as much as I could with them for $10. I feel I made plenty of profit, I think the other guy (who just happens to be an East coast trans

plant), was just a poor old greedy excuse for a human being. Does the guy hate me and think I am a jerk? I surely hope so, I think it is an honor to be hated by assholes. I hope word gets around to other assholes that I have a desire to do the same thing to them. Recently I sold 8 pairs of NOS Fiamme Ergal rims for $40/pair.  Someone on the East Coast wanted $115/pair!  You and I both know that they originally cost $50 for all 8 pair.
       
The crank I am selling, you claim is less than what distributors would be selling for. How come they are selling so high? Did they just recently buy their inventory at equally high prices? You and I both know that's not the case. Those kinds of spiraling costs merely resulted from speculation, greed, and a blithely bizarre desire as one of the eastern folks put it, to "lead the market".

On the other hand I am very sympathetic to your disdain of the opposite, but equally damaging character, the gouging "collector".  Yes, I have seen the individual who will tell you that your wares are worth a whole lot less than what they are actually worth, just so he can buy them and then sell them for 10 times the amount. Surely these folks leave a transaction with the other party feeling like he had diarrhea poured over himself---Yuck!  On that note let me end this message with a question. At the end of the day, what is the price/cost of imparting a lasting goodwill?--
--Slen@AOL

Dear Slen,
You say:  "I should let you what kind of bird (myself)) you are dealing with here"

You mean foul, vindictive and proud of it?

Two of our distributors made an effort to stock a few vintage Campy parts, they both say they have had to increase their prices, because they are paying much more lately due to short supply and because what little there is does not come from the manufacturer.  Further, they sold out again, which indicates those prices work at the current wholesale level. 

I don't know what you "know".  The costs you give are low.

You obviously did not yet absorb what I sent you. 

I'll give you more time.
CyclArtist@AOL


Dear CyclArtist,
<< You mean foul, vindictive and proud of it?  >>

I am out of my league-
take care of yourself and good luck to ya.
Slen@AOL

Dear Slen,
Sorry, but thanks.

I appreciate the opportunity to spar with ya.  No malice intended.
CyclArtist@AOL

The above Email bounced back as Slen had blocked my mail to him. 

Of course, the $200 crank set never arrived.  ~ JFC

NEXT PAGE
The idea is to reward as many of the entrants as appropriate.

But how to judge?  Some events simply trust that a conscientious judge will do his best and leave it at that.  I think that is unfair to the judges.  Human nature is competitive and suspicious.  Some exhibitors pride in their bikes is immense and many put consider able effort into preparation.   Leaving judging informal invites accusations of bias or incompetence.

More organized events give a scorecard so judges can arrive at a numeric score for all bikes.  One approach, derived from auto concours, is to start at 100 points and deduct for any flaws in condition or specification.  I have judged events where each component of each bike was scored for condition and "correctness".  For example, in one system, the saddle is worth 5 points.  When judging a seventies Cinelli, one would score 5 points for a new condition Unicanitor Model 3 in buffalo leather, as this was the catalog spec.  If showing signs of wear, 4 points.  If the bike is fitted with a new-condition Brooks Professional with the 1970's era nameplate, one might score it well, as the saddle was a "period" option that many riders might have chosen when the bike was purchased, perhaps a 4.  A recent production Brooks perhaps 2 and saddle in poor condition or inappropriate, 1.  I'm not comfortable with this system for several reasons.  First, there are very few people who are confident of this level of detailed knowledge on whatever shows up on event day.  In the auto world, such things are better documented, and required pre-registration and tight categorization, often by brand, aids judging.  For bicycles, at least at this stage of collector/event maturity, this system poses several problems.  First, no authoritative documentation exists for vintage bicycles.   Anyone in the trade can tell you that product literature or magazine articles are often incorrect.  Further, unless carefully isolated into tiny categories, this system can cause unused, boring production bikes to beat rare, historic actual race winners!  Bicycles are made to be ridden, and the emphasis here is too heavy on unused equipment.  Finally, I want my events to be positive and the focus on fault finding here seems to work against that.

For the Concours d' CyclArt I've developed a system that seems to get the balances right: 

All show bike entries are given an event pin and are eligible for door prize.  Numbered cards are provided to write bike description and history.   Entrants mark categories they wish to enter, as many as the bike seems to fit.   This year's categories will include:

Selected by Judges:  Best: antique, replica, vintage racer, Italian, British, French, American, custom, touring, commuter, pre-war balloon, post-war balloon, original, restored, tandem, motorized, muscle bike, hot rod, low rider, pre-1900, pre-balloon, pre-W.W.II, 1950's, 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, The Braslow/CyclArt best of show award.

Voted by entrants:  Most: historic, unusual, creative, beautiful, rare, cool, rusted.  Best: Custom bike, lugs, paint, crash damage, new design, concept bike, bike art.

Voted by spectators:  People's choice.

Sometimes not all categories are awarded and I have been known to make up awards for a deserving, but unexpected bike.

Over the years some have commented that the range of categories is too wide at my events that there should be a focus limiting the event to balloon classics or racers or whatever.  Prestigious, long running & successful motorcycle & car events often include very diverse interests. Meanwhile, I see a bit of cross-pollination between otherwise isolated interest groups as a good thing.   I think until the event outgrows our locations ability to handle it, there is no reason to split.  Typically, we get about 100 entrants but could accommodate 200 or more.  If we overflow that, it will be time to do more than an annual event and tighten the focus.